Yes I agree. Different friends enrich our knowledge and most atheists and agnostics are critical thinking. We still can get some positive things from them.
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“Some, unfortunately, are bullies which enjoy degrading others together with their pack. I used to be bothered greatly by them (so I can understand Tio’s comment up there), but thankfully not so much now.
These people are not worth your time, since most of the stuff they’re spewing are pure crap.”
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Yes, jerks are everywhere. They always try to insult us and lure our anger out. Sometimes i just don’t get these kind of people. If they want to be accepted because of their different notion, why don’t they do the same thing? Selfish, sure! Yes they’re just jerk. Hehehe, sabar bu!
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OK, hail google too. LOL.
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Yes, i was wandering around on Mulia’s blog. But too bad, at the moment she changes the privacy access setting on her blog so i can’t peek to her blog again. Hehehe, true, the world is too small.
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Thanks a lot, and i’ll deliver your regards soon

Dear bang Harry, just stop by and accidentally find this marvelous article, i want to ask a permission from you to quote this article into my blog, thank you

By the way, where do you get the source before writing this article? I mean which book have you read as a reference? I am really interested to read the book you’ve read. Or any reference, please tell me. Thanks again.

*just dabbling –> it’s a bit awkward to speak in English with my relative, hehe.

Wassalamua’alaikum wr.wb

I even think that as long as they keep within the boundaries of the law, those people in my country (The Netherlands) who call the likes of me (agnostics) pigs for instance, have the right to do so. It’s insulting, but it is not a personal insult. It’s only my spiritual conviction they despise.

Of course they should not be allowed to treat me as a pig physically. But insulting thoughts and words only should not be surpressed. If only out of sheer selfishness: it offers me the opportunity to try to enter into a discussion, maybe a debate. And who knows, perhaps we all end up like friends respecting our mutual differences ( at times I’m an optimistic guy).

(PS: I checked on the site of the forum. Alas I’m handicapped: I don’t understand Bahassa Indonesia. But to me the word ‘liberal’ sounds rather reassuring.)

I guess you and I, on certain issues, may strongly disagree. Yet I consider banning, forbidding, oppressing of opinions which are at odds or even insulting to my convictions, totally off limits. Moderate, sensible exchange of views with persons we percieve as having a different opinion, who are interesting opponents or who are even our all out foes, is the only right way, in my opinion.

In real life we should not be over-sensitive. An open mind and resilience is what we need if we want to act in an adult way and really want to live in peace.

Guyz, last week spam mail enter my office mail and mentioning about 1 website called http://www.indonesia.faithfreedom.org
When I visit this website, I’m so surprised to see that Islam is being insulted and judged by a group of people that proudly pronounce themselves as kafirin and murtadin.

We need to do whatever we can to shut down that website and stop those people from insulting Islam.

If any of you knows somebody who can do this, please help do this.

May the bless of Allah be with us.

Wassalam,
Tio

@amalia
AFAIK It doesn’t because sin, it because to enter the Haram Area you have need to clean (suci) from big hadast (sorry i can’t find the exact word in english)

Regarding point 9… yes, I’ve read somewhere that our Prophet SAW allowed Jews and Christians to live in Madinah and Makkah. But nowadays those two cities are not reachable by Christians, let alone Jews. Only Moslems are allowed to enter the “Haram area”… that’s what they call it. I’ve been wondering for years why the government is doing this. it seems that they regard non moslems as sinful therefore they mustn’t enter the area… hmm

btw… this link that you provided: http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_apos3.htm is blocked by the Saudi gov here. I can’t access it. Looking at the domain, religioustolerance.org… is perhaps a website to promote tolerance and understanding among different believers right??? but oh my… they block it. What is that supposed to mean???? I’m so not happy.

Regarding point 9… yes, I’ve read somewhere that our Prophet SAW allowed the Jews and Christians to live in Madinah and Makkah. But nowadays those two cities are not reachable by Christians, let alone Jews. Only Moslems are allowed to enter the “Haram area”… that’s what they call it. I’ve been wondering for years why the government is doing this. it seems that they regard non moslems as sinful therefore they mustn’t enter the area… hmm

btw… this link that you provided: http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_apos3.htm is blocked by the Saudi gov here. I can’t access it. Looking at the domain, religioustolerance.org… is perhaps a website to promote tolerance and understanding among different believers right??? but oh my… they’re blocking it.

Hope you will recover soon!

Hope you will recover soon!

Heavy stuff. But once again good stuff. Very good stuff actually. I really love your introduction. I can, as you might expect, sympathize with what you wrote there. And as for your extensive argument in relation to Sir Arthur, I do admire the class of your reasoning. Although I have to admit, being an agnostic myself, religions to me are primarily moral systems.

I take it you don’t take me ill if I yet present two, no three, questions:

1. You said: “Therefore, you just believe, no need to ask questions. This can save a lot of hassle of thinking about so many things. You just do.”

But isn’t that the point? Isn’t the quintessence of any of the three monotheistic religions revelation (the divine truth revealed to someone else who died long ago - be it Mozes, Jesus or the Prophet). By definition there is no proof of the revelation, but yet one has to accept it as an absolute truth? Isn’t this a 100% ‘contradictio in terminis’?

2. You also said in connection to “9. Islam allows Christians and Jews to live free within Muslim controlled countries”:

(a) “It is. At one point of time, some Christians even preferred to live under the rule of Muslims, since they will receive better treatment. ”

and

(b) “And lack of certain “citizenship rights”, I was suffering under the same term when I lived in UK. It is very well expected that non-citizens are not to have the full rights of a citizen. For example, I paid the full tax, but I didn’t get any benefit (example: children welfare support, etc).

In reverse, there was no such discrimination in Islam.”

ad (a): I have to give you that. There have been examples of that - tolerant Muslim rulers giving refuge to Christians persecuted by fellow Christians. But on the other hand nowadays the Saudi’s don’t allow the building of Churches or a Christian lifestyle, just to mention a few details, on their territory. Quite the opposite of tolerance shown in Italy, isn’t it?

ad (b): I hardly can believe you actually mean to state the difference you refer to is a kind of religious based discrimination? No equal citizens rights in the UK for Muslims?

To my knowledge UK citizens are treated equal under the law, whether they are black, brown of white. And legal aliens, whether they are Anglican, Catholics, Jews, Hindi or Muslim are, to my best knowledge also are treated equal.

This is unlike the circumstances of Christians - let alone Agnostics, not to mention homosexual Agnostics- living in Pakistan or even Iran. Countries that claim to be ruled on the basis of one religion. Don’t you agree?

Although I will readily and hastily add that this does not incriminate the faith, but the followers and the rulers only.