Israel vs Palestine

I got the following from a forum. Guys, this is how colonialism & slavery is done now : with heavy support from the mass media.

We need more investigative journalists (like Greg Palast etc). And, of course, citizen journalists – eg: bloggers.

Let us all speak out against this new oppression & injustice. Let us hear & say it : Israel is the terrorist.

Rule # 1: It is always the Arabs that attack first, and it’s always Israel that defends itself.
This is called “Retaliation” .

Rule # 2: The Arabs, whether Palestinians or Lebanese, are not allowed to kill Israelis, either soldiers or civilians. This is called “Terrorism“.

Rule # 3: Israel has the right to kill Arab civilians.
This is called “Self-Defense“. If the dead Arabs are by the hundreds, “Collateral Damage“.

Rule # 4: When Israel kills too many civilians, the Western world calls for restraint.
This is called the “Reaction of the International Community“.

Rule # 5: Palestinians and Lebanese do not have the right to capture Israeli military, not even a limited number, not even 1.
This is called “Kidnapping” .

Rule # 6: Israel has the right to capture as many Palestinians as they want. (Palestinians: around 10000 to date, 300 of which are children; Lebanese: 1000 to date, being held without trial.) There is no limit; there is no need for proof of guilt or trial.
This is called “War on Terrorism“.

Rule # 7: When you say “Hezbollah”, always be sure to add “supported by Syria and Iran”.
This is called “Axis of Evil“.

Rule # 8: When you say “Israel “, never say “supported by the USA, the UK and other European countries”, for people (God forbid) might believe this is not an equal conflict.
This is called “Helping our Friends“.

Rule # 9: When it comes to Israel, don’t mention the words “occupied territories”, “UN resolutions” or “Geneva conventions”.
This could distress the audience and is called “Anti-Semitism“.

Rule # 10: Israelis speak better English than Arabs. This is why you let them speak out as much as possible, so that they can explain Rules 1 through 9.
This is called “Fair and Balanced“.

26 thoughts on “Israel vs Palestine

  1. So what we should do here? And what about us?

    Is that true that Indonesia from USA point of view are “an occupied natural resources territories, an occupied culture and media territories or even worse as an occupied civilization”???.

    Mr. Prabowo Subianto in kick andy on metrotv said that when he visit the former president Mr. Habibie in Germany, he knew that what made him fired as “Pangkostrad” was a demand from a super power country as Mr. Habibie explained to him. How about that fact?.

    Are we really in our independence or is it just a HOAX?

  2. The biggest weaknesses of a what so called Islamic Countries (is there any?) is too busy with their own business. That is why Islam become marginal in politics and seems powerless.

  3. Wow, touchy issues by the numbers.

    Of course I do agree that Israel in this conflict is to blame. It is violating UN resolutions, it has been committing breaches of human rights, one might even say it commits acts of state terrorism.

    It’s a fact that untill now, this did not bring about a worldwide force to make Israel to give in to (a number) of Palestinian demands.

    Why is that?

    No one will deny this has something to do with the influence of evangelicals on the US policy. Etc, etc.

    But there are other reasons as well.

    First of all not all Israeli’s are evil, neither all Palestinians are angels. For instance because terror is terror, even if it’s guerrilla terror.

    Neither is the Israeli case all together evil and the Palestinian one totally right. Both peoples have rights to existence on that specific spot of earth – so, the only one solution is peaceful co-existence. Making war and blowing each other to pieces over a period of about 60 years, is not the ideal preparation of course.

    Very important, I think, is the PR factor.

    The Israeli’s are very good at it, the Palestinians very bad.

    It didn’t help when Palestinans at the Olympic Games killed the Israeli sportsmen & blew up planes in the seventies and buildings in the eighties, killing Western civilians in the process. Neither is this the case when NGO employees in Gaza are being kidnapped in our days.

    It does not help either that Israeli spokesmen/women command their English, while their Palestinian counterparts often don’t.

    And it ‘s not a good idea to communicate your point of view late, later then your opponents. And with a content moreover that does not appeal to the targeted audience.

    Well, fact is that Israeli’s usually are very fast and Palestinians very slow. And, if it is the objective to influence Western public opinion, Palestinians should take into account what appeals and what appalls.(As a Westerner myself I can say: they don’t seem to have a clue).

    As for the way media report on the conflict, you probably are right that they often don’t escape from the pitfalls of the situation. In a recent book (“Het zijn net mensen” by Joris Luyendijk) is shown that the media are being misled by both parties on a grand scale. More professionally by the Israeli’s. But Al Jazeera is in no better position than BBC World for instance. We, the audience see and read, not the facts but very often theater which has been staged by the authorities on either side.

    But papers like The Guardian (GB), die FAZ (Germany), Le Monde (France) or my own NRC (The Netherlands) are nevertheless rather balanced in their comments and quite clean in their reporting. And these papers definitely are not pro Israel for better or for worse. Neither do they conceal the corruption in the former Palestinian Authority.

    That doesn’t mean that this has direct influence in the world of “Realpolitik”. Geo-politics go beyond morals, unfortunately. And that is, what it is: geo politics.

    @daustrala: I really don’t think the core of the conflict has much to do with religion. Zionism, Evangelism and Islam are only the emblems. It would be much better if these emblems left politics alone, by the way. If they had done so we would not have had to suffer the eight years of Bush administration for instance.

  4. @colson,

    Of course I do agree that Israel in this conflict is to blame. It is violating UN resolutions, it has been committing breaches of human rights, one might even say it commits acts of state terrorism.


    It’s a fact that until now, this did not bring about a worldwide force to make Israel to give in to (a number) of Palestinian demands.

    Why is that?
    Very important, I think, is the PR factor.

    Yup & mass media controlled by who? Why they control mass media ? Why don’t Islamic Countries? …. Why ?
    Yes … It because

    of a what so called Islamic Countries (is there any?) is too busy with their own business.

  5. @MaIDen: “Control the media”?

    Whether or not “Islam” countries ( do you mean theocracies?) are to blame is not for me to answer. But, speaking about media, I guess there is too much of a conspiracy theory implied in your comment.

    Yes, Silvio Berlusconi controls much of the Italian media. And yes, Fox is Murdochs mouthpiece. But let me assure you that all newspapers and periodicals that matter( in Europe at least) have guaranteed independent editorial staffs. By law, for that matter.

  6. @ismail – any country dared messing with Uncle Sam’s interest is going to get it.
    Read this and weep
    @daustralala – when there’s no khilafah, I guess there’s no islamic country. Just country with muslim majority, or country with islamic law (which is not always executed as it should, even worse), etc.
    @colson – Murdoch alone have access to siginificant number of people. Not to mention other media owners who have affiliations to various Zionist lobby and will heed their call.
    Let’s look closer, at home – there are already cases of “kebablasan pers” where the media owners will veto certain news, and fabricate certain article for character assassination / other purposes.
    Various senior journalists are now unhappy that the “kebebasan pers” they fought so hard for are now abused for the interest of few elites.
    Europe is a bit different I think. The medias are a bit better, I read the Guardian too. Very interesting — if all media are made to be non-profit and transparent like that; instead of a commercial entity, it may be able to do good for the current situation.
    Re: palestinians (the people), they are not without fault. But if we remember the context, I think we’ll be able to understand that. Indonesians are especially able to sympathize since our freedom fighters back then were called terrorists too by the oppressors.
    Also, extreme situation will result in extreme reaction. Again, understanding the context and avoiding generalization is very important.
    But the palestinian goverment – they’re pretty bad. I still remember when Yasser arafat died, and they found loads of his wealth. While the palestinians are living below poverty line.
    And currently they’re still quite busy with their petty politics. I think even if they managed to drive Israel out, they’ll soon fight amongst themselves 🙁
    Just like what happened in Afghanistan.
    That really sucks.

  7. @Harry
    I’m already weep
    @daustralala and Harry
    “when there’s no khilafah, I guess there’s no islamic country. Just country with muslim majority, or country with islamic law (which is not always executed as it should, even worse), etc.”

    == I used to read that if the “syiar islam” like adzan, women wearing proper hijaab etc is done clearly and freely, it is an Islamic countr y. ==

    “Both peoples have rights to existence on that specific spot of earth”
    “Very important, I think, is the PR factor”.

    == We had a quite same experience when “Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie” was here. And yes at that time we might not have a good PR . 🙂 ==

  8. @Ismail: You’re absolutely right. The VOC was about PR.

    No, let’s be serious. I can understand feelings of solidarity can influence one’s point of view. Palestine is highly explosive material. But assessing the situation as cool as possible one can hardly maintain that the comnparison is on target.

    You know as I know the VOC was about power and deals. Deals between smartassed VOC officials – who from a few settlements which had been occupied by sheer force, without any legal claim whatsoever on Indonesian soil- did strike deals with the oartly very willing collaborating high and mighty.

    Which is crucially different from the present situation in Palestine/Israel. That territory can legitimately be claimed by both Palestinians and Israeli’s – on historical grounds as well as by international law. Because there’s the heart of the problem, it can not be solved along the lines colonialism could be solved.

  9. @colson – That territory can legitimately be claimed by both Palestinians and Israeli’s – on historical grounds as well as by international law
    OK let’s check both:
    Historical : the Israelis **used** to live there, hundreds of years ago. Now it’s someone else’s land.
    If we check squatting laws in various country, I think you’ll see that squatting for 10 – 20 years will give you rights to that land already.
    So if this piece of land has been left for hundreds of years, the Israeli already lost their rights for a very long time.
    International law : which international law? The one made by the British?
    It’s very one sided.
    And if you look back at the beginning of the country of Israel, you’ll find their soldiers are taking over lands by force. With brutality rivaling Hitler himself.
    From whichever angle I looked on it, I’m still unable to find any substance to the Israelis’ claim. Just propaganda & lies.

  10. @sufehmi: In my first lines here on the subject, I tried to make it clear that in my opinion also, Israel is to blame in this conflict.

    But nevertheles let’s start by agreeing we that disagree on several of the in and outs of it. Which is only normal. Our perspectives differ; yours is from the South Eeast and mine from the North West. So, with due respect, I dare say that unless I’m totally blinded by lies and propaganda, there may be one or two angles you skipped.

    For instance I might point out that it was the UN that gave it’s blessings to the state of Israel. Which is the kind of legitimacy which can not be ignored – independent of whether one considers it to be a just decision or not.
    I might also point out that – in “Realpolitik” – one should take into consideration what the relative power and influence of the actors is. As long as the stated ultimate goal of the weaker party, was/is a total victory and elimination of the much stronger enemy, one may doubt the wisdom of that strategy. Or to put it bluntly: that is the outcome in never never land, I’m afraid. Or, which is an even worse scenario, in an apocalyptic ending.
    I might also say that complaining about the very successfull lies and propaganda of the opponents, is not the way to success. One should do better oneself. Well, I rather have a much better PR that just lies and propaganda of course.
    And, lastly, I might point out that striving for a viable compromise in the conflict to me seems to be the only sensible alternative. Try and rally the potential support on both sides for a creative solution. Unfortunately the “two states” solution has – by now – been successfully torpedoed by Israel. So, in my mind, only a smart construction of a two people/one country is what is to be hoped for.

  11. @colson – it’s very nice to still be able to have civil discussions, even when we clearly are in disagreement. 🙂
    Thank you.
    UN is NOT exactly a neutral body. Especially with the ***veto*** capability of just a few countries.
    Also, in several occasions when UN was not exactly doing what USA wish for, US gov’t hold up their membership fee. Unfortunately, it’s a pretty big sum, so the UN will basically collapse if that continues.
    Finally UN relented to US gov’t wishes, and US paid its due.
    So I won’t close my eyes and say that every UN actions are automatically legitimate. When the developing/weak countries are very poorly represented there.
    There is a reason why Soekarno spearheaded the Non-Block movement.
    Re: complaining – probably you’re talking about others, but I’m not complaining. Just stating the facts.
    Apologies if you got the wrong idea.
    Re: compromise, I totally agree, and it seems some of the people from both sides are thinking about it too. If you browse around the internet, you’ll see heartwarming stories of both people connecting with each other.
    However, these movements are so far being heavily attacked by extremists from both sides.
    Anyway, by the aggression done at the creation of the country of Israel, it’s clear who are the aggressors and who are the oppressed.
    The Zionists back then could enter the land in peace and coexist with current residence. It didn’t do that. Instead it :
    1. Sneakily buy up lands along time in huge amounts (since 1800 if I’m not mistaken)
    2. When they’re ready, attack & massacred the Palestinians
    3. The Israel country was created
    And these Jews extremist are still in particularly large numbers there in Israel. It’s rather hard to talk peace when there’s only one thing that they wishes for : the whole Palestine for Israel, by ANY means necessary.
    Peace will only be able to prevail when extremists from both sides are eliminated.
    Thanks for the discussion.

  12. No wonder some people have been lost discussing about palestina….

    If you talk about UN, i never have heard that UN is real estate company, she have no land and have no authority give someone land to other.
    And ask yourself: If your land have been taken from you what would you do?
    If you say you will fight for your land, so will the palestinian. If you say that Israelis claim is based on history, what kind of history you’ve talked about? The Creation of Israel has no moral dan law basis.
    Have you ever visited Read for yourself.

    In fact, based on history, the very first people who has resisted the creation of Israel is the people from US State Department. Yes, that’s true.

    in 1948, prior to the birth of Israel, the jews only have 6% of the palestine. Eventhough they tried to buy the land they only came up to 6%. And the pseudo-real estate company the UN gave them 51%!. And until now, Israel is only the country who has no de jure dan de facto border. It’s not because the resistance of the Arabs, it’s because the Israel do not want to.
    Extremists? If you took someone land, surely he/she will fight to defend it. Extremist? I don’t think so.

  13. We are all become subjective if it is related with religion.
    I have question, if it is not Jerusalem is the homeland of Jews, where is should be?
    Judaism got Jerusalem as its holiest site. Christian only has it as its holy site, we don’t put it as the most important in our faith. It is only a material thing. Nothing.
    Now it is Judaism vs Islam.

    And I don’t found any clue why you call Jerusalem as your third holiest site. Qur’an never mention about this city even once.

    And one for sure, after six-day wars that won by Israel, they are all Arab-Paletinian was packed and ready to leave west bank (ancient name for this area are Judea & Samaria) and Gaza strip. It is only by stupid General Dayan who persuade Arabian to stay. He thought they might be useful as bridge to neighboring Arabs nations. Now they become bigger because of bunch of migration into Israel, and more confident. Today they ask Israel to leave…

    Too much propaganda made by Muslims countries…
    And you maintain to much hatred.

    So, what is the homeland of Israel if it is not Jerusalem ?

  14. palistine will win!!!!soon or far……im so sorry for israel!!!who says israel is right,he/she doasnt see the real things happens there!

  15. Hell!!! Here we go again…

    Sir, Mr Leonard…. AFAIK we, especially me, have never talked in religion’s term about Palestinian-Israel Conflict…
    You’re the one that connected and yet contradicted it also….
    Your question is very odd, just like you’ve just arrived from another planet….
    Your statements are very contradicted with the current history….
    We’ve never talked on religion basis because the story is very simple: some people oppressed, appropriated and violated some people right. Yes, the wrongdoer is Israel, after they violated all the international law.

    If you ask where the homeland of the Jews, I simply answer: I do not know.
    But I dare ask you: who’s given the Land of Palestina as Jews homeland? Why?

    Sadly you’ve never understood and refused to understand…
    And the worst thing is, you have used religion as basis of your racism view….

  16. in the name of god
    مرگ بر اسراییل جنایت کار
    اسراییل به عنوان رژیم نامشروع، غاصب ، تجاوزگر و ظالم ،باید از جهان حذف شود تا همه‌ی ملتها از شرش رهایی یابند
    palestine will be winner
    israel shuld be die
    الموت لالسراییل

  17. @Leonard – the question is: why should Jerusalem become Jews’ homeland ?
    Aren’t we all human?
    Don’t we all live in this same planet?
    So small, it’s practically a tiny speck of dust in this vast universe.
    Home is where the heart is. We CAN live together, anywhere, in peace.
    I’ve been living in several places, so I’ve understood this. Hopefully more people will as well.
    Anyway, if we checked the history – many Jews were already living happily all over the place. Then the Zionists forced many of them to move to Israel.
    They were forced out from their homes, into a strange land, taken away from its owners. And become target of hostility from their neighbours.
    Zionism is terrorism. This concept must be annihilated from the face of this planet.

  18. I think Israil wants the end of time they think if they did this stupidity again n again muslims will fought 4 there servivor
    and that wor would be the reason of ending
    so whatever thay think it doesn’t mattar the think is what we have to do now something not only just shotting on them and give resolution but something more more then what thay deserve.

  19. Thanks for this post! I was doing a little research to better educate myself on what’s currently happening in Israel. I really didn’t know the extent of it and now it kinda makes sense all of what’s happening. Very scary stuff.

  20. I think Israil wants the end of time they think if they did this stupidity again n again muslims will fought 4 there servivor
    and that wor would be the reason of ending
    I agree with him

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